Posts by Doug Mason

12

The starting event of the Watchtower's "70 Years"?

by Doug Mason in

according to the watchtower society, which event marked the start of the "70 years".

on which day and month did that event occur?.

Doug Mason

Apologies for my lack of precision. The "70 Years" I am referring to is the period related to the Watchtower's "2,520 Years". In retrospect, I should have referenced the latter.

Magum,

I wish that that Watchtower reference was more clearly expressed. We can see they are referencing the departure of Jews for Egypt. From the structure of the grammar, does the period commence when the people started to set out for Egypt or when they crossed the border, thus making at that point the "land where no one dwelt?".

I have located only a few relevant statements in the Society's publications to the start of the "2,520/70 Years", with the most relevant in the 1963 "Babylon the Great Has Fallen!", but for some reason it has gone the way that "forbidden books" disappear.

Ironically, the Society's illustrations of their "2,520 years" show the removal of Zedekiah from the throne as the starting point. But they have problems with that since Jerusalem was destroyed and Zedekiah removed in the 5th month (July/August).

7

What scriptures support this:

by jdlvdb in

what scriptures support the story that the "truth" will be lost till "the time of the end" and that just a random would "rediscover" it?

Doug Mason

It will be interesting to know when the Watchtower finally does arrive at Truth. They are still changing it, which makes them hypocrites for complaining that others do not (also?) have Truth.

Doug

12

The starting event of the Watchtower's "70 Years"?

by Doug Mason in

according to the watchtower society, which event marked the start of the "70 years".

on which day and month did that event occur?.

Doug Mason

According to the Watchtower Society, which event marked the start of the "70 Years"?

On which day and month did that event occur?

Doug

8

This generation, Jerusalem, spiritual Jerusalem but what about Judea?

by Crazyguy in

in the book of luke chapter 21 it's writings are very similar to that of matthew where jesus is talking about the end and "this generation" .

he mentions jerusalem being surrounded and to flee.

in modern times bible believers believe this generation is about thier generation and jerusalem is refuring to spiritual jerusalem and they point to scriptures in the book of revelations to make the point.

Doug Mason

elbib,

And Paul died in 64 CE, several years before the Gospel of Mark was written. Take care, of course, noting always whether Paul was the actual writer of the document attributed to him. In your case, you are on safe ground since 1 Corinthians is one of Paul's genuine letters.

So we can presume that since Paul wrote first, that Mark and others were influenced by him. (James obviously was not.)

8

This generation, Jerusalem, spiritual Jerusalem but what about Judea?

by Crazyguy in

in the book of luke chapter 21 it's writings are very similar to that of matthew where jesus is talking about the end and "this generation" .

he mentions jerusalem being surrounded and to flee.

in modern times bible believers believe this generation is about thier generation and jerusalem is refuring to spiritual jerusalem and they point to scriptures in the book of revelations to make the point.

Doug Mason

The earliest Gospel is Mark, written about 70 during the Jewish upheaval that saw the Second Temple destroyed. Mark saw the destruction as indicating the end was imminent. The Matthew Gospel was written about 10 years later, or so. By the time Matthew wrote, he/they added and amended Mark to explain why there had been a delay. The Matthew writers were not happy with Mark's so they added to it and amended it.

By the time "Luke" got around to collecting his thoughts together, another decade or three had passed. Luke, as with Matthew, included material from Mark as well as other written and oral material.

These people were all talking to their own people about their own time. They were not talking to any later generation. They were trying to explain why the expected Coming had not taken place, hence their changing language.

Other Christian groups, known today as Gnostics, laughed at discomfort of the Parousia expectations by the Pauline Christians. Hence the language of 2 Peter, which was written later again, about 120 CE.

Doug

36

Understanding The Bible ... The "Linchpin" Effect

by Littleleslie in

understanding the holy bible.. .

after many years of study of scripture, our bible study group has discovered something very important that needs to be realized or absorbed, before one can come to a correct understanding of the bible.

we call it, the "linchpin" effect... .

Doug Mason

The primitive Christian Church was as divided as it is today.

One grouping of those sects is today known as "Gnostics". They taught that Jesus came from the spirit world and gave secret sayings only to his disciples. For them, Jesus' death was irrelevant. Salvation came through knowng the secret sayings. For the Gnostics there was no Parousia (Coming) because all you needed to do was "believe" (sounds a lot like John's gospel and 1 John 5 to me).

If you need to know more, search the www for Gnostics.

Everything old is new again.

The Pauline sect that finally won out - because that sect was made the official state religion by a Roman Emperor - called themselves "Orthodox" (right teaching) and they declared that anyone who disagreed with them were "heretics".

The Pauline sect declared that the writings which supported their views were Holy Scripture. No surprise there.

Doug

14

Why did Jehovah want to kill Moses?

by Doug Mason in

on the way, at a place where they spent the night, the lord met him and tried to kill him.

but zipporah took a flint and cut off her son's foreskin, and touched moses' feet with it, and said, "truly you are a bridegroom of blood to me!

it was then she said, "a bridegroom of blood by circumcision.

Doug Mason

Thanks for the clarifications. I appreciate the collective scholarship.

I do have a question, though (no surprises there, I guess). The quotation by Old Hippe from the Insight book states:

"The literal reading of the ancient Hebrew in this passage is veiled in the idioms used nearly 3,500 years ago."

Am I correct in saying that one of the tenets of Higher Criticism is to take contemporary idioms into consideration when researching the Bible? If that were so, then the Watchtower here is employing Higher Criticism.

Doug

14

Why did Jehovah want to kill Moses?

by Doug Mason in

on the way, at a place where they spent the night, the lord met him and tried to kill him.

but zipporah took a flint and cut off her son's foreskin, and touched moses' feet with it, and said, "truly you are a bridegroom of blood to me!

it was then she said, "a bridegroom of blood by circumcision.

Doug Mason

On the way, at a place where they spent the night, the LORD met him and tried to kill him. But Zipporah took a flint and cut off her son's foreskin, and touched Moses' feet with it, and said, "Truly you are a bridegroom of blood to me!" So he let him alone. It was then she said, "A bridegroom of blood by circumcision." (Exodus 4:24-26, NRSV)

At a lodging place on the way, the Lord met Moses and was about to kill him. But Zipporah took a flint knife, cut off her son’s foreskin and touched Moses’ feet with it. “Surely you are a bridegroom of blood to me,” she said. So the Lord let him alone. (At that time she said “bridegroom of blood,” referring to circumcision.) (NIV)

As Moses and his family were traveling along and had stopped for the night, Jehovah appeared to Moses and threatened to kill him. Then Zipporah his wife took a flint knife and cut off the foreskin of her young son’s penis, and threw it against Moses’ feet, remarking disgustedly, “What a blood-smeared husband you’ve turned out to be!”

Then God left him alone. (TLB)

8

JW Memorial = Black mass

by pleaseresearch in

i've heard this before that what jws do is the same as a black mass.

could someone give me a link, book or evidence to support this please..

Doug Mason

Although we read the Gospels before reaching the writings of Paul, the reality is that Paul wrote his 7 letters at least 10 years before the earliest Gospel, by "Mark" (who was not a disciple). Why is this important in the context of the "memorial"?

Because it is Paul who first wrote that Jesus said "this is my blood, drink it". Paul was not there. Paul was estranged from the community at Jerusalem, keeping away from them for 3 years, and then only having short private meetings. Paul explicitly states that he did not receive information from any man, only directly from Jesus Christ.

Where did Paul find out that Jesus said these words? He received them in a visionary contact with the dead and resurrected Jesus. The later writers simply copied Paul. That's the reason the words are so similar. Paul got the words while he was on a "high", in an other-worldly state.

And would a Jew really say "drink my blood"? Did Jesus say he was going to drink his blood with his disciples when they are in the kingdom?

Black Mass. White Mass. Red Mass. Green Mass.

It's all the same - it all came from one man's imagination.

Doug

19

The Watchtower Society’s 607 BCE Foundation Exposed

by Doug Mason in

the governing body and its watchtower society claims that in 1919 it was appointed by jehovah god and jesus christ to represent all of their earthly kingdom interests, to be their unique voice and sole representative towards all people on earth.

the watchtower’s authority lives or dies with that claim..

the society’s critical date of 1919 is calculated from the dates of events in the 6th century bce.

Doug Mason

HI,

Resulting from helpful recommendations by several of you, I made adjustments to some details. None of these affects the substance. Some are cosmetic only.

To ensure that the touched up version is being accessed, I have added "Revision 2" to the filename.

http://www.jwstudies.com/Watchtower_s_607_BCE_Foundation_Exposed_Revision_2.pdf

Do you think I need to start another thread to ensure this Revision receives better exposure?

Doug